Metal Iain wrote:

Atom wrote:Good, fucking gun loving prick.

Guns don't kill people; people kill people.

Yes, using guns.

Atom wrote:

Metal Iain wrote:

Atom wrote:Good, fucking gun loving prick.

Guns don't kill people; people kill people.

Yes, using guns.

People were killing each other long before the invention of the gun.

At the end of a day, a killer is a killer is a killer and won't rely on having a gun to do his job.

I wish a gun would do my job.

Metal Iain wrote:People were killing each other long before the invention of the gun.

At the end of a day, a killer is a killer is a killer and won't rely on having a gun to do his job.

Yeah of course, but if guns are promoted by idiots like Heston more people will get them and that surely means that more people will use them, probably just for shootin' cayns in tha' back yard but eventually some nut will shoot up a bunch of people instead. Massive amount of gun crime in the US and that guy is telling people to go buy a 46.

Indeed. People should promote peace and Bob Marley, not guns and other such tomfoolery.

Metal Iain wrote:

Atom wrote:Good, fucking gun loving prick.

Guns don't kill people; people kill people.

Or monkeys kill people... If they have a gun

Yeah, but do you think anyone who is psychologically insane enough to want to kill someone is going to be like "Hmm... I definitely feel like killing a bunch of people, but there's not really much point if I can't get a gun... ah well, maybe next week". I don't agree with promoting any type of weapon because I don't agree with violence (unless it's about respect, I agree with it then), but to agree with others and re-iterate the cliched phrase: "guns don't kill people, people kill people". It's just how it is. Any way, saying Charlton Heston was shit regardless of his acting abilities is like saying Hitler was shit regardless of his singing talents - which, I might add, were impeccable.

MartinC wrote:I don't agree with violence (unless it's about respect, I agree with it then)

s'all about respec'

Cernunnos wrote:Or monkeys kill people... If they have a gun

Classic Eddie Izzard.

Atom wrote:

Metal Iain wrote:People were killing each other long before the invention of the gun.

At the end of a day, a killer is a killer is a killer and won't rely on having a gun to do his job.

Yeah of course, but if guns are promoted by idiots like Heston more people will get them and that surely means that more people will use them, probably just for shootin' cayns in tha' back yard but eventually some nut will shoot up a bunch of people instead. Massive amount of gun crime in the US and that guy is telling people to go buy a 46.

You can't really blame Heston for that though. The Right to Bear Arms (anyone that cracks that family guy 'joke' is fucking scum) is intrinsically linked to being an American. It was the second of the amendments, of which there are not too many, to be made to the US Constitution. Telling Americans that the right to legally own and operate guns in your own living space is like telling us that Parliamentary Democracy is a daft idea.

Blaming the NRA for American gun crime is missing the point entirely. The NRA actually promotes the legal ownership and operation of firearms as they were intended to be used in the first place. Yes, they do encourage gun ownership as the prerogative of every US Citizen, but they also sponsor the regulation of gun ownership and even train people on how to use them.

If you're going to pick a fight with anybody over the firearms issue in the USA, you're better off directing your criticism at the Founding Fathers rather than the people who are trying to sort it out...

Yeah but he is a famous person promoting guns, people listen to famous people and the more guns people buy, the more gun crime there will be. I just don't like people who promote guns, thats all I'm trying to say.

Metal Iain wrote:You can't really blame Heston for that though. The Right to Bear Arms (anyone that cracks that family guy 'joke' is fucking scum)

whats wrong with that joke? it's fucking basic humour, but good for a giggle man!!!

also, famous people who promote guns and 'defend their rights' to have guns (ie - saying 'WE NEED GUNS!!! MORE GUNSS!>!>">!!1111!!! GUNZ R GOOD!!!') are complete twats, the majority of people will hold these 'celebs' in high regard, so their effects of their opinions and words go much further than an 'average' person can.... They should basically have some responsability and accept the fact that there IS a massive gun problem (and they aint helping it), and do something about it

Atom wrote:Yeah but he is a famous person promoting guns, people listen to famous people and the more guns people buy, the more gun crime there will be. I just don't like people who promote guns, thats all I'm trying to say.

I'm not really buying that.

At the end of the day, people have to be held responsible for their own actions. If you infer that people buy guns because Heston was the spokesman for the NRA, you infer that anti-semitism took off in Nazi Germany just because Hitler was a popular figure. Does that imply that Hitler has to foot the blame for the action of the people that supported him? I don't think it does and I don't think it should. People invariably have a choice when it comes to what they do, say and believe. You can't blame a charismatic spokesman if someone wants to own a gun just in the same way that you can't blame Hitler if people bought into his rhetoric.

thrash metal maniac wrote:

Metal Iain wrote:You can't really blame Heston for that though. The Right to Bear Arms (anyone that cracks that family guy 'joke' is fucking scum)

whats wrong with that joke? it's fucking basic humour, but good for a giggle man!!!

also, famous people who promote guns and 'defend their rights' to have guns (ie - saying 'WE NEED GUNS!!! MORE GUNSS!>!>">!!1111!!! GUNZ R GOOD!!!') are complete twats, the majority of people will hold these 'celebs' in high regard, so their effects of their opinions and words go much further than an 'average' person can.... They should basically have some responsability and accept the fact that there IS a massive gun problem (and they aint helping it), and do something about it

It's very basic humour and it's a joke they'd used before in the episode when Death goes on a date with the lassie from the pet shop: 'You can't hug your children with nuclear arms.' It's just a play on words and, frankly, even I find that juvenile.

Again, I sincerely believe that people have to be held to acount for whatever they do. Having the NRA foot the blame for gun crime in America is just really perverse logic to me. You could take it as far as saying that the NRA was partially responsible for the shooting of John Lennon because they advocate legal gun ownership. That's just not the case. John Lennon was killed because Mark Chapman was a complete nutter that wanted to kill John Lennon. The same goes for Dimebag. When it happened I thought 'Fuck the Second Amendment' but I should actually have been thinking 'Fuck Nathan Gale'. When it comes to gun crime, I just find it a bit hard to blame anyone other than the person who squeezed the trigger. If someone is hacked to bits with a chainsaw to you blame B&Q for selling them?

The NRA does do something. It sponsors the legal ownership of guns and when and how they can be used. Accepting that the US has a gun problem will ultimately result in squat because guns have been readily available there for two hundred years. If someone wants a gun enough, they will be able to get them. What the NRA does is say 'Look, guns are here to stay. If you have to have one, you should do it by the book.'