im sure at some level there is a higher power but till it proves its self im not gonna worship it and even if it does make its precence known to me id probly just tell it to get fucked anyway

Read 'The God Delusion' by Richard Dawkins. It's really compelling - strips away all that inner child need of a parental Father Christmas style God figure mentality - makes all Christians, Jews and Muslims look stupid (not hard really). In all likely hood it all comes down to cause and effect; cold hard facts and all that but, can't help but see / feel a thread that's holding and connecting lots of seperate events together. I have practiced a little on Ouija boards / ritual majick type stuff in the past and had a really distinct series of connected lucid dreams that weren't for the faint hearted. The name of my music project came from the board.

Just don't make the mistake of thinking that we are all gonna live forever in some wonderful blissful dimension where all is forgiven - don't believe that what you do doesn't count, I'd say... Because when you start believing in something, it's amazing how things arrange themselves in your favour (majick).

That picture, the Egyptian afterlife scene; second death waiting - oblivion. That's worth preventing.

God? - yes, maybe. but too far away.

You do realize that the Ouija board is just the people in there subconsciously moving it right?

Derren Brown proved it!

Wot? /englishaccent

swizzlenuts wrote:Wot? /englishaccent

He did a program ages ago where he arranged a seance (spelling hmm?) with a few people, and I can't be bothered to go into the detail of what actually happened in the show, but it ended with a ouija board joy and everyone was going mad thinking it was real, and at the end, Mr Brown showed them how he set everything up to make them all think of this one person and basically it was all fake. But it showed how powerful the subconscious mind can be, and that if you really believe something strong enough, your mind will make it real. For example, my ex-girlfriend believes she's seen jesus in her bedroom. Suffice to say, I'm very glad I don't go out with her anymore.

ahh, I thought you were disagreeing with me.

According to Christians: If you believing something strong enough you're willing to die for it, then it's a fact.

Probably coming into this thread pretty late but here goes anyway:

My view on the whole God/religion/beliefs thing is that people should be allowed to believe what they want to believe (talk about sitting on the fence ), but mutually exclusive (so "believe on our religion or you will die" kind of stuff) is a bad thing.

Religion should be personal, it's something that is - and should always be - individual to everyone. I live with two members of my university's Christian Union - one of them being the vice-president. What I personally believe is a bit of mish-mash of various things.

I generally don't believe in a "God" as in the "one true being who can control everything" - but I'm not really a true atheist either. I do believe in something that resembles the Chaos Theory - in other words: shit happens, the explanation is that there's no explanation, the universe tends towards infinite chaos and it's something that no man or machine can do anything about whatsoever.

Edit

I also think that religions - to some extent - are a figment of our imagination. At the back of the mind there has to be something that keeps it ticking over, something to believe in. Some people call it the subconscious, some people call it the soul. Some people need the idea of a religion to fill this gap, others don't.

As far as the afterlife goes, I suppose I don't believe in heaven/hell because I don't believe in God as a being. However hippy-ish it may sound, I guess I believe in the ether - the infinite stream of anti-matter that keeps the "matter" side of the universe in-check.

swizzlenuts wrote:You do realize that the Ouija board is just the people in there subconsciously moving it right?

mmm, maybe, maybe not. I saw the Derren Brown show too.
I think maybe alot of it is subconcious control but what really changed my opinion on it all being crap was the dreams that followed. It should have ended after the session, but me (and my acomplice - before you think me insane) were visited by strange dreams and premonitions for a while after that were quite baffeling from a rationalist perspective. But -yes- you can pick holes in anything really so I won't bore you with it. Maybe it stimulates some kind of ability that normally lays dormant. Got some great lyrics off it so I'm happy! Even if your not talking to real spirits, the fact that the glass moves and spells out the things it does is a little miracle in it'self.

Have a go! It's fun!
and ask for Zomdlin... or Azazal if your feeling brave.

All you need to know about religion in six minutes:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rCz0-HY1TLU

CAUSATION ALWAYS EQUALS CORRELATION!

I love logical fallacies.

jonny_boy34 wrote:But it showed how powerful the subconscious mind can be, and that if you really believe something strong enough, your mind will make it real.

I believe I can fly!!! I actually do honestly think that the human mind could be powerful enough to make you think you were flying, after all, everything you know as reality is only what your brain is telling you you're seeing/feeling/hearing etc. For all you know you could just be a brain that has created this world you think you're living in... thus making you God, in a way.

Lemmy is the god of rock/metal world!
as far as a real god goes,its all down to the persons brain,its is either controlled by thoughts of a god or it isnt.mine isnt and im still a good person without religion.the brainwashed cant help it,so leave em to it,but i have no time for whoever forces religion or sees all non believers as scum or infidels (check the torah/koran rules for example)

A FINE EXAMPLE OF AGRESSIVE/OFFENSIVE PREACHING IS THAT PRICK OUTSIDE CAMDEN STATION RANTING ABOUT JESUS WITH PLACARDS AND A SPEAKER EVERY FRI/SAT EVENING I COME TO CAMDEN.HE WONT GET ANYWHERE OPPOSITE METAL CLUBS OF ALL PLACES AND HE IS JUST ASKING FOR TROUBLE.HOW WOULD THIS SO CALLED LOVING CHRISTIAN ACT IF SOMEONE SHOWS HIM THEIR NEW T-SHIRT(INSERT OFFENSIVE GOD IS GAY,DEVIL RAPING JESUS ETC MESSAGE HERE)
EXACTLY,HE JUST GETS LOUDER AND MORE IN YOUR FACE,RATHER THAN FORGIVING/TURNING THE OTHER CHEEK ETC,ITS ALL ONE SIDED WITH HIM.YOU EITHER JOIN HIM OR BURN IN HELL BLAH BLAH BLAH

if you want the truth dont read bibles etc.the most you could ever learn about this world beleive it or not is actually through watching SOUTH PARK.
the creators truly have their head screwed on with what really goes on if you look past all the silly side of things,there are some great messages.

""if you want the truth dont read bibles etc.the most you could ever learn about this world beleive it or not is actually through watching SOUTH PARK.""

yeah, south park is the source of all true knowledge

I'm quite tempted to read the bible... just wana know what all the fuss is about and I know there are some sweet stories in there... but yeah, nothing can ever justify the slaughter of millions just because of yer beliefs!

Read the Bible, also read the Satanic Bible. The latter made more sense of the two.

If you want a good Bible book buy "Ken's Guide To The Bible", it should be available on Amazon.